What is needed by users in both cases is a healthy dose of intellectual honest and skepticism.
So some scholars think Moshe Rabeinu, a"h, might not have existed? Why believe them?
Some modern Biblical scholars don't believe in the antiquity of the Bible? What makes them more authoritative than the ones that do?
[...]
Why are you only skeptical of one side?
This brings up a good point.
Let's think about this.
I, like most people, was raised believing in a heliocentric Solar System i.e. that the Sun is at the center of the Solar System. I don't usually ponder this question. I take it as a given. I've never bothered to even look at the proofs that the Sun is actually at the center of the Solar System. So I go on with my life, I go to work, eat my supper and occasionally watch some TV and assume all along that the Earth orbits around the Sun.
Then one day I surf the internet. And I find a fascinating article that claims that many major scientists actually question whether the Sun is at the center of the Solar System. In fact they say that the Earth is at the center of the Solar System. And they claim to have ironclad proofs to demonstrate this!
Suddenly my assumptions about a heliocentric solar system are not so true. I have to start questioning what I used to take as obvious. Maybe now I start looking at the proofs for a heliocentric solar system. Maybe I compare them to the merits of a geocentric solar system.
In short nothing is as simple as it used to be.
Here's the kicker. It doesn't actually matter whether or not I'm certain that the geocentric folks are correct or not. Now, I'm not gonna be so cocky and certain that the Sun is at the middle of the solar system. An important and dramatic shift has occurred in my worldview. Originally the heliocentric solar system was something I never questioned at all. It barely crossed my mind. But NOW that I know that MAYBE just maybe there is another opinion. Now I'm in the realm of doubt.
So you see it doesn't matter whether I fully believe the scholars who says Moses didn't exist are right. When I'm growing up I assume that Moses existed. Its as obvious to me as the heliocentric solar system. I never question it. I never think about it. Now, suddenly the cornerstone of my life, an axiom that tells me what to do in the morning, what blessings to say what God to pray to, is no longer axiomatic. I have to start thinking whether Moses existed. I have to determine it.
I might decide that the evidence proves that Moses did exist. I might decide the opposite. Or I might decide that one cannot tell one way or the other and therefore the efficacy of me following the dictates of this "Moses" cannot be proven one way or another.
Learning about alternatives, even if you don't initially believe them, is still "dangerous".
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Of course it is.
That's exactly why my comments are generally deleted by atheist bloggers and why atheist bloggers have complained about me to google.com, the police, my wife, my rabbi, my employer, child protection services, etc etc.
Learning about alternatives, even if you don't initially believe them, is very "dangerous"!
I think you were reported for a reason.
everyone is out to get you!!!booga booga!! Your just the
Perfect human being!
Lol
Sure there were. For the same reason I can't leave comments on unpious.com. We don't want to confuse those stupid little drop outs.
JP, you aren’t banned because of your ideas. Most skeptic bloggers are happy to host people with different opinions and points of view. With you, it’s personal. We don’t like you.
Don't feed the troll
First of all, your analogy doesn't work. A heliocentric vs geocentric solar system can be examined and the answer can be determined. An ancient historical figure like Moshe Rabeinu for whom evidence only exists in the Torah cannot be examined in the same way.
Secondly, your point " But NOW that I know that MAYBE just maybe there is another opinion. Now I'm in the realm of doubt" really needs to be clarified. Let me point it out in an absurd way. Do you believe Elvis is dead? Because after a 2 second Google search, I found this website:
http://www.elvis-is-alive.com/
Lots of proof that The King is still with us. I mean yes, there was the body, the medical evidence, the funeral but hey, someone on the internet wrote what looks like a well-researched piece and says he's alive. Wow, are you now in the realm of doubt?
For 3500 years the existence of Moshe Rabeinu is taken as fact. Suddenly some scholars that you've never met, whose agendae you don't fully know about, whose qualifications you're not familiar with, come along and say "Hey, we don't think he existed because we don't have his passport photo" and you're in doubt?
That's not an intellectual decision (sechel with a "sin"), it's a faith-based one (sechel with a "samech") which is a different matter altogether.
>
A heliocentric vs geocentric solar system can be examined and the answer can be determined.
In my example it doesn't matter whether the answer can be determined or not. Completely irrelevant.
>Let me point it out in an absurd way. Do you believe Elvis is dead?
In the example I specifically wrote "And I find a fascinating article that claims that many major scientists actually question whether the Sun is at the center of the Solar System." The key words are major scientists. I don't think any major historians claim Elvis is alive.
Either ways everything you're saying is irrelevant. You're telling me that YOU expect people to not be in doubt. Well good for you. Thanks for the advice. but the reality is people do get put in doubt for these things and call 'em stupid if you want but it happens.
I'm describing psychology here not facts.
Actually it is completely relevant weather the answer can be determined. If it can there is no room for doubt, only investigation.
No, I'm not expecting people to not be in doubt. Doubt is important. Questioning is important. One of my big criticisms of Chareidism is the way it takes major tenets of Judaism and reduces them to simplistic dogma. I'm saying that just because I happen to run across someone on the internet with a lot of credentials who says something different from what I know does not mean I suddenly have to start doubting.
good for you but again I don't care about what YOU would do
Yes, I'm sure you don't care but my point was that your point, that surfing the internet will expose one to kefirah, is overblown. I suggest that a thinking person will not suddenly be exposed to doubt because someone somewhere wrote "Academics believe..." on a random webpage.
See, that's one of the real dangers of the internet - learning in all fields of knowledge needs to be a personal experience. Whether you're learning medicine, literature or Torah it needs to be from a human being with experience and an ability to guide the student. Just pulling up webpages, even those put up by "major" scholars is not a good way to learn anything. You shouldn't have to have a webpage trigger the thought "Did Moshe Rabeinu exist?" A good student wouldn't have doubts raised just because a web page said something. He'd find a teacher he trusts and get his opinion.
bizarre comment
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