- You don't have to break ties with your fundamentalist family and friends
- You can continue a lifestyle you're familiar with and continue living comfortably in a community you like
- You can continue enjoying the bits and pieces of Judaism you like
Cons:
- You have to speak with a bit of a filter in order to keep people appeased - AKA lie about your true beliefs
- You have to feign horror when hearing that someone has angered God by eating a cheeseburger
- You have to keep a lot of annoying and also useless things which mean nothing to you
- You have to take part in some morally offensive things like listening attentively to a chapter of the Torah commanding genocide...
Is it worth it? Or should we get out while we still can?
I'm at the point where I just wanna believe so that I can stop worrying about it. The clock is ticking and I'm not gonna have the opportunity to leave forever...
Inertia is strong through.
God, I wish I knew what to do....
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14 comments:
Oy - I hear your consternation so well! I think if I had realized the truth and had the opportunity to leave at your stage in life - I would have done it. Now, of course... now - it's too late (a loving wife and 9 kids will kinda make it well nigh impossible). If you honestly believe that life will be better for you "out there" then please - PLEASE! - do it. Don't wait till it's too late...
The really funny thing is that overall my life is really great... and do we really ever know what lies for us after we die? Wow - see how well they brainwashed me? I re-read that last statement and it is so clear how very deep in the cult I am...
I think in my case I at least have a very close confidant in my ezer-kenegdo with whom I share my doubts and anger against the system. Do you have any possibility of getting a Shidduch with a girl who shares your doubts? Maybe someone from the skeptic JBlogosphere?
For some reason, and I still am not sure why, there are almost no female skeptics in the Orthodox circles that I've been in... Plenty of male Orthopraxers but just no girls... (this btw is reflected in the J-blogosphere which has so FEW female skeptics compared to all the males.. ) It's a tragedy really.
Besides I fancy the believing girls anyways, which makes things oh so much more complicated... though that's another story...
As for leaving part of my problem is I'm not sure if life would be better for me. I'm not too unhappy now with my current life but who knows what I'll feel like in 10-20 years?
Decisions, decisions...
Basically I lead an outwardly Orthodox lifestyle. I am a first born son and I do not attend shul on a daily basis and certainly not tomorrow morning. My children are grown and on their own. Thus I will not place pieces of bread on my window sills and look for them with a flashlight and I will not be burning the little pieces of bread in their little wooden spoon either. I (and my wife) walked away from it all years ago albeit spiritually . I am satisfied with the choices made as we enjoy the lifestyle. And at this stage of life I don't have to bullshit anyone about anything.
You can continue enjoying the bits and pieces of Judaism you like
Do not underestimate that. If--and it's a big if--you're lucky enough to have positive associations with much of the rituals then it can still be a source of happiness.
You have to speak with a bit of a filter in order to keep people appeased - AKA lie about your true beliefs
True. But you can find friends to be open with.
You have to feign horror when hearing that someone has angered God by eating a cheeseburger
Really? In my experience this never comes up.
You have to keep a lot of annoying and also useless things which mean nothing to you
True. But you can minimize it. Sometimes.
You have to take part in some morally offensive things like listening attentively to a chapter of the Torah commanding genocide.
True. But notice that your example of moral offense is an act of listening! The reality of the Orthodox lifestyle is that it's not full of much in the way of moral offense. You're more likely to run into plain old-fashioned racism in the frum world than anything specifically due to halacha or Torah.
The Orthodox world definitely has its downside, but I can't imagine what life would be like had I chosen otherwise (and I had the choice way back when). I will stick with the OJ world, but not to the point where I throw my kids under the bus. If I have to throw my kids under the bus, I'm gone. Anyone know what I mean?
You dont have to choose
If you want to eat a Bacon Double Cheeseburger, go somewhere out of your neighborhood and eat one. You probably wont have to travel far.
Want to break shabbos once in a while, Go to a Hotel and do what you want. Watch TV. Hire a Hooker. Eat a Lobster.
In life we always filter things, When you boss says something that you disagree with. Do you admit you disagree with it or just move on . You dont always have to tell people you disagree with them or they talk nonsense.
Do you watch TV or listen to the radio, arent there always people who say annoying meaningless things.
There is nothing in your house that is not religious based that is annoying? I dont know if you are married, but most peoples spouse have something the other finds annoying, you just ignore it and move on
It gets harder to be orthoprax with kids, so based on my experience - get out while you can! Or consider LWMO. There's some orthoprax maidelech at Footsteps, if you're near NYC. (Or connect via their Google group)
I am LWMO...
The kids are really the problem. If not for the kids, I could do my thing and my wife could do her thing. Kids come with exorbiant tuitions and difficult decisions about what to teach them.
> You have to speak with a bit of a filter in order to keep people appeased - AKA lie about your true beliefs
Only a bit. Not so much with people you’re close with, and with those you’re not - if you thought a stranger’s tie was ugly, would you tell him, or just smile and nod when he tells you about the deal he got on his great tie?
> You have to feign horror when hearing that someone has angered God by eating a cheeseburger
Nah. You may get a reputation as left-leaning, but in my experience people won’t condemn you for being understanding towards cheeseburger eaters.
> You have to keep a lot of annoying and also useless things which mean nothing to you
Yeah. But you can usually skip the things that most annoy you.
> You have to take part in some morally offensive things like listening attentively to a chapter of the Torah commanding genocide...
You may have to be there to keep up appearances, but no one knows if you’re listening. At that, the text itself is mythology, not history. That it commands real people to commit genocide is morally offensive, but it has as much relevance to the real world (and is therefore of the same moral status) as reading about Zeus eating his children.
I'd be far more comfortable with these passages if I thought the story was true. After all, if it happened, it happened. If not, someone thought this was a good story to come up with to teach us how to live.
In response to a previous comment regarding the paucity of female skeptics, I'd like to offer a hypothesis:
First, it has been my experience- and I'm talking as a former Bais Yaakov student here- that religious girls are more likely to suffer intellectually as a result of the gendered role-playing that goes on in the frum society. Sure, the normative thinking pattern inhibits the men, but it practically enslaves the women, makes them veritable cripples.
Second, the girls that actually do break free have a far easier time abandoning the system completely and adapting to a new social scene. Their lives are less regimented and systematic than their yeshiva-going male counterparts, and there's more room for freedom and acculturation (i.e, Bais Yaakov girls are already watching chick flicks starring Brad Pitt and listening to Lady Gaga- in some cases they merely have to put on jeans to make an almost seamless transformation.)
But in answer to your original question- why the hell would you do something as debasing as that? Are you willing to live a lie only because you don't want to have to make new friends, find new scenes? I understand I'm being abrasive-- that is my intent. It seems a shame to me that you would forfeit the only life you have to mollify the immoral, messianic, and sectarian fantasies of some cult. Especially because there's so damn much out there. Read a philosophy book, explore new music, make strange and eccentric friends who will challenge you to do and see and feel new things every extra moment oxygen still travels to your brain. Revel in the knowledge that rests at your fingertips, and appreciate the benighted and miserable morass most of humanity is still stuck in.
Understand that if you are 'orthoprax,' what you are essentially doing is actively supporting a model that will indoctrinate the less intelligent or inquisitive into believing a host of ignorant teachings. Without you and people like you buying into it, the hateful system that has and continues to cause so much harm will eventually rot. The religious would no doubt attempt to (in the best of cases) excoriate and excommunicate you and me five hundred years ago: it seems an insult to all that injustice to keep feeding the self-same parasite.
Sorry for rambling- I am currently floating in a sleep-deprivation-induced haze. But your question is a significant one, and as such warrants significant dialogue. I've attempted to present my side of the argument: the choice is, and always will be, in your hands. Just remember that our time is achingly finite, and complacence can be fatal.
[Also- love your blog. Please keep it up! As a teenager who only now is starting to shrug off the fetters of my upbringing, your skepticism has affected me profoundly. Keep that mind of yours healthy. I'm sure you know that it is all you really have.]
Actually, there are quite some morally offensive things going on in the Orthodox community, because of halacha or certain people's understanding of it. What about rabbonim who tell parents of a sexually abused child that they are not allowed to go to the police? Or what about prominent rabbonim who tell a sincere ger that his conversion from a well-respected beis din is invalid, years after the conversion, and refuse to tell the ger the reasons? This can mean breaking up a marriage, and possibly causing someone to commit suicide.
I don't think you're rambling. You made some interesting points. BTW, you might want to take a look at a couple of recent posts at Jewish Atheist's blog where he and others reply to a teenage male skeptic.
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