Now there are basically two approaches one can take to this rather new-agey conversation.Luke: Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.
Obi Wan: Your father was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view.Luke: (incredulous) A certain point of view?Obi Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
1. Obi Wan has a strange habit of saying things in the most roundabout way as possible.Instead of saying "Oh you're dad's the arch villain" he decided to say "The arch villain killed your daddy". Luke was just dumb for not getting it.
2. Obi Wan lied and is covering it up.
Sooooo what does this have to do with God, the Torah and Israel?
Well if you take the whole Oral Torah thing really literally as the original intent of the text, (instead of a more a historical approach where the OT is a reinterpretation of the original intent of the text) you're going to end up with a God who talks a lot like Obi Wan Kenobi. i.e saying the opposite of what he really means. I figure the conversation between Moshe and God went something like this.
Moshe: Why didn't you tell me? You told me that we're supposed to eat Matza for seven days! Now you're telling me it's only really one??? You told me to lash people 40 times now you drop one for the hell of it???
Luke: (incredulous) A certain point of view?God: Moshe, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
Moshe: Erm... what point of view would that be... ?
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What a person is can be described by what they do. The dark side of the force consumed Luke's father and he ceased to be what he was. This kind of thing is very well represented in modern criminal law where someone pleads not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect. It certainly comes into play when you are dealing with schizophrenia.
So how about a plain reading of the text...Obi Wan remembered Luke's father when he was good and chose not to associate that good person with Darth Vader. Its the reverse of repentance. One last stray thought. The cells of our bodies completely replace themselves over time so technically in some period of time, you will completely cease to be what you were physically. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Lol maybe but I still think Obi Wan made things a lot harder than they had to be. He was obviously obfuscating a lot more than is necessary to convey the simple info - "Vader = bad version of your dad"
thanks
>Well, God has his reasons, of which we know nothing; anyway, God told us, through the oral Torah, what he meant by that, so why are you complaining?
They could but it seems to be a choice between obfuscating mysterious God and Torah+interpretation. I think the latter is just simpler.
>More importantly, the analogy seems to require that God say one thing to Moses at one time and then something else to him later on; but aren't the written and the oral Torah supposed to be given to Moses at the same time?
True.
This post explains perfectly how you can have one author and still have contradictions. If the story teller is creating a tale which goes on for a long time (like star wars or the show Lost). As time goes on the author can forget what he told in the beginning and ends up contradicting himself. He can't correct himself since it's in the past and the audience already knows it happened. Therefore the author is forced to create another part which explains the contradiction. There's something in the gemara which says something like when you have a contradiction between two verses the third verse reconciles he difference. This would go against DH
Moshe: Why didn't you tell me? You told me that we're supposed to eat Matza for seven days! Now you're telling me it's only really one??? You told me to lash people 40 times now you drop one for the hell of it???
God: What I told you was true... from a certain point of view.
Luke: (incredulous) A certain point of view?
Hey, why is Luke butting in on a conversation between God and Moshe ?
( I can't believe it: four people have commented, and nobody has noticed this !)
On another note:
I figure the conversation between Moshe and God went something like this.
Considering the way things went on, during the Wandering in the Wilderness, I'd say the conversation was more likely to have been between Benei Yisra'el and Moshe, as it was usually they who complained about what God, through Moshe, said( like Qorach and his followers). Moshe seemed too humble to question God's laws, let alone His choice of wording.
>This would go against DH
Perhaps but it might also go against the divinity and innerancy of God
Lol, Luke, always sticking his nose where it doesn't belong *sigh*
>I'd say the conversation was more likely to have been between Benei Yisra'el and Moshe
Very true Korach would have had a field day with the OT considering his blue tallit antics. ;)
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